Sunday, April 27, 2014

Daily Animation 3

This will be the last time I do an animation in Flash, I think. Someone suggested TVpaint in the comments, and since I hadn't used it in a while, I gave it another shot. It's much better than Flash for my purposes. The drawing tools are less laggy, and they lack the annoying line correction that holds back Flash. Though it is slightly more confusing.


In other news, for the heck of it, I thought I'd talk about a game concept I've been thinking about.

Rogue-Lite H-Game

I think a genre that would work really well for H-games are Rogue-lite's, or rather, game's with elements of Rogue-likes. Specifically perma-death.

One of the problems in games where you have a choice like "resist/don't resist", is that you're essentially just choosing if you want to see an H-scene or not. You're not choosing "don't resist" because of a threat, your choosing it because you want to see an H-scene. Your motives don't really line up with the character's.

The benefit to a game with perma-death, is that such situations might actually pose legitimate threats. Sure you could fight off 5 guys at once, but it would be tough. Do you risk it? Or do you do what they say and escape in the night? Well, perhaps you  do what they say, and now your purity stat went down. That angel-girl familiar you found a while back won't be following you anymore....

I think it would create a lot of possibilities both in terms of gameplay, and in terms of H-content.

However, like most rogue-lites these days, this kind of game would require randomization. A long, linear game doesn't work with this concept, because starting over all the time and going through the same sections multiple times would be frustrating.. The game needs to be what I tend to refer to as "session" based. That is, you're generally expected to lose. Not always because you did poorly, but because the circumstances of that run just weren't in your favour. Sometimes,the opposite happens, you find a bunch of good items early on, and feel more of a connection to the "session", and you don't want to lose. The beauty of this kind of gameplay is that if done well, the player will look forward to starting over even if they lose, because it means a fresh start with new opportunities. Of course, there might be some sort of sustained progress, but that's only if there's a spefic end-game. Otherwise, multiple endings would work better, I think. (perhaps with each ending bringing more events into the next run? Hmm)

Anyhow...

Really, this kind of game isn't much more difficult to make than anything else. But it is very different. Less thought needs to be put into level design, and more needs to be put into emergent gameplay, and random generation. It's certainly something I want to do at some point.





39 comments:

  1. A rogue alike would be great!! Procedural generation seems like it would be difficult in a platformer. Maybe it would easier to have it in a bullet hail kind of game like in Realm of the Mad God. An H-game like that would be awesome.

    also when demo!! I'm really looking forward to it

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    1. I think rather than a bullet hell kind of game, I'd be more likely to make it like FTL, but on foot, and in a fantasy setting. Encounters would be side-view, and in small areas, with combat being more like duals than an action platformer.

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    2. Have you seen Innocent Unjust yet? I think that game would be a great example to make a roguelite (although that game was linear it also provided some freedom)

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    3. An FTL-like also would remove the problem of procedural generation as well (FTL isn't exactly procedurally generated; most of it is much more like a card game). Maidensnow Eve is an H-game which I think does count as procedurally generated, and whilst it's a decent enough game, it's not a particularly good H-game. Using randomly selected set-pieces should mean enough control over the games direction to ensure that it's a decent enough H-game.

      (Incidentally, this is something I've actually thought over a great deal, as I'm considering making such an H-game as a second spare-time project. Although I think I'm leaning towards something more Dwarf Fortress like.)

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  2. Huh. It actually fits pretty well, especially as an adult game. You might even end up getting more people to play your game that way but still keep the content the same. I think it would sly by better for those who are generally uneasy, since the H-content could add on to the consequence of making such a choice.

    As an outsider, I wouldn't mind hopping on and helping out. Really cool idea.

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    1. (Same anon)
      Even better, make choosing not to look could be another element added. Like, you know how some games have it where you blink as a necessary part of the gameplay? Maybe you could have it where your purity levels would not shrink so much if you "close your eyes." You could still then allow the shock value (but not so much), but also have another form of appeal for others.

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  3. Have you played Maiden Snow Eve? ttp://www.dlsite.com/maniax/work/=/product_id/RJ115762.html
    It will show you a lot of clue about making game like that.

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  4. Has an h-roguelike every been done before? That'd be nifty!

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  5. A rogue-like H game sounds like the best idea I've ever heard, frankly.
    Also, I am thoroughly enjoying the adventures of Robot Man.

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  6. When ever I hear Rouge like, I always think back to Shiren the Wanderer for DS. Sounds like it would be an interesting idea though

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  7. Considering the assured awsomeness of Below when it drops, why not something in that vein for gameplay? C'mon, Zelda meets Dark Souls meets H..that's one helluva winning mash-up. It would be a departure from the metroidvania craze, and I'm not sure if that's outside your comfort zone, but change can be rather inspiring when guided by the proper hands. Just imagine a campfire scene aftermath following your hypothetical of our heroine throwing down her sword in the face of overwhelming odds. Only, from an angled top-down perspective instead of the usual side-scroller view. I know Below's dungeon is randomly-generated, and perma-death is a big part of it. But I'm not sure how difficult that particular type of gameplay would be for you to create compared to the side-scroller style you've stuck with thus far. I'd really like to hear your opinion on the subject.

    P.S. To the Anon that mentioned the "close your eyes" option, great idea. And maybe the option could change with the decline of your Purity stat. Just a thought.

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    1. (Same Anon)
      I might go explore this a little more as well. It's been a while since I've written out designs for games and I think this one has so much potential going for it, I'd be stuck in the comments section posting about it.

      This is seriously a really good idea.

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  8. Greetings all together.

    The idea itself sounds really interesting so far, since it is not a thing you see every day – if mixed up with H-content. As stated from many users before, it has a certain amount of potential to it for creating an interesting game experience. On the other hand, the Metroidvania-style alone allows some interesting gameplay with a little bit more length to it, without causing too much work.
    Just thinking about that made me wonder: Why not combine both game-elements?

    It reminds me of the game “Rogue Legacy”. Some of you may know it. If not, you can still look it up on the net. ^^
    Taking a rough look at the game, you have the randomized rogue like elements with perma-death on one side, and a lot of the platformer elements of Metroidvania-esc titles with ‘new skills for movement and combat’, ‘character development’ and so on. Also a variety of boss fights are involved which stay dead – if beaten – until you complete the game by beating the final boss. So you spend a lot of characters perma-dying due to the game mechanic, trying to beat all the bosses and complete the game once. After that, the game starts over again with new game +.

    It might be a bit harder to create code that is necessary – depending on how far you’ll go with randomizing dungeons or anything – but the combination of both styles itself has a great potential gameplay- and story-wise. Just imagining a game where you have to explore a world and fight enemies and bosses to gain certain powers or items that allow you to progress further in the world, fighting stronger enemies and bosses till you reach the final foe, mixed with rogue-like randomness, perma-death and H-content sounds like a huge interesting deal. But it also sounds like a ton of work. I think a lot of modularization has to be done to create a game like this, but personally I think it would be worth the effort.

    What do you guys think about it?

    Best regards. ^^

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    1. An H-Game Rogue Legacy? That sounds like the best example on the market.

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    2. Rogue Legacy isn't quite the same. It's based more on consistent progression, with a couple random factors to how you play each time. If I were to do a rogue-lite, it would be based more around gaining equipment and abilities in that "Session". In other words, you could beat the game in your first playthrough, it's just that chances are you wouldn't be skilled or savy enough yet, as opposed to being underpowered.

      Also, I don't think I'd do an exploration platformer. Randomized platformers are fun, but theyre never going to have level design or pacing on par with an actual designed level.

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    3. Binding of Isaac uses a similar game mechanic as rogue-legacy, but it has a top-down perspective, kinda like a creepy Zelda rendition. That game is a prime example of roguelikes: You ca have the best roll in your first playthrough but you dont have the skill to make proper use of it

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  9. True enough. Rogue Legacy is truly based on consistent progression, even if you can beat it on your first run too, if you're skilled enough. It's quite hard though. Also it only was kind of an impulse for creative thoughts. Like the first thing that came to my mind that comes as close as it gets to my thoughts, being an actual game for example. ^^

    It's true that it's quite difficult for one alone to manage the split between randomness and actual level design. At some point I'm thinking about the Diablo-series somehow. It is quite possible to manage a balance act between the two, but it defiantly takes way to much effort to do it and the levels still wouldn't be that up de par with actual designed levels, as you already stated. That might be something to try later on. Blizzard took a while to make actual random levels with some sense behind it. x' D Just thinking back to the first game makes me laugh at these illogical door placements and so on.

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  10. An H-Rogue-like? Yes! Rogue Legacy as inspiration? Ew, not THAT. That game is hardly a rogue-like.
    It's just too... pre-set. Which is a bad thing, without enough real variation. Even just swapped out room sectors, or a few jumbled enemy positions would have really made that game enjoyable.

    Fushigi no Dungeon 2: Fuurai no Shiren, on the SNES is a MUCH better inspiration. It's much less of a predictable game. ...and it can really be a dick, when you're slowly starving to death! XD
    Here is a piece of mine, from a month ago. Based off of a guy's concept art, to inspire him.
    http://i.imgur.com/eahSHrG.png

    (Yes I'm that same bloke, who posted that first-person furry game, and the Eroico fan-art. lol)

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    1. There are a few H-roguelikes that exist on the fringes of the fetish game community, they're all incomplete. The singular project that sticks out as it resembles a working game is definitely very fun for the sake of it's own randomization and exploration. Although they're all cobbled together text games with very minimal art, if any.

      I badly wish more existed even if it was just another text game with 16-bit bit pixelated characters for "graphics" but I suppose I'll just have to wait for the those few shitty projects to finish(if ever) and serve as a proof-of-concept and hope a clone becomes successful. Then of course we have the inevitable cloning of that clone trying to make a cheap cash-in.

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    2. Wasn't intended to be a reply, wrong button.

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    3. Shitty project?! I JUST posted a relevant 16-bit styled game-screen, in what you responded above! Heh! XD

      I agree with you, though. Most fetish based rouge-like titles, really are just minimal text games.

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  11. Where is demo,mate.

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    1. Still being made, haha.

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    2. what did they expect?

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  12. I really like the sound of an FTL style side scrolling duelling rogue-like. As far as I know not many, or any h-games like that exist. If done well it could be really something. It'll have the ability to be deep as well as light to play. I this this might very well be an avenue worth exploring!

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  13. Hey, a bit off-topic but I mentioned in a previous post a while back to check out Punisher. I found another great game that might interest you. Hope you like it, http://bloodraynebetrayal.com/ <--- unfortunately there isn't any hentai, so I think the game is great but disappointing in my opinion because, well, I would love to see hentai in it.

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    1. Is a shame agreed lol, though as I recall Blood Rayne was always a hack and slash with skimpy clothes :S

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  14. I don't think I'd enjoy a game with permadeath personally. That kind of thing would ruin game play for me. It'd be a "dealbreaker" as far as me finding it fun and entertaining anyway.

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    1. It's not like having perma-death in something like say, skyrim, where you would be losing hours, even days of progress. The game would be meant to be played in short sessions, that could either be prolonged and more successful through skill, or beaten in different ways, not all of them taking too long.

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  15. when i was reading this i thought it was going to be like dark souls (lets face it a dark souls gameplay h-game would be awesome as hell) but the more i think of it the more it sounds like rogue legacy or the binding of isaac which also sounds cool,

    altho if it is going to be a "session" type of game all up-grades you buy ether need to be cheap as hell or stay with all "session" of chars that were made (wondering what your idea with that is anyway)

    oh just to ask, would this be more like a sneaking around game or still fight as much as you can? i only ask since the "session" idea would work best with the sneaking gameplay i think anyways

    altho since we all don't have alot if info we are all just guessing anywayslol, i'm still going to buy the next and any other game you make dood (as long as killing, guro and netorare isn't involve and if i have the money XD) but now that i thought of it a dark souls-like h-game would be amazing :D

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  16. Late to the party, but why not use a Dragon Quarter / DeadRising system instead? Have a hard-as-hell (preplanned) dungeon, but you carry over skills when you die, which will open up more alternate routes of the dungeon on your next run, letting you delve even deeper still.

    If you plan to make a story focused game, then you can explore areas different from the main dungeon, letting you see events from a different perspective, or events that cause later events in the story. And using this knowledge, you can choose the best course of action later on in response to that event.

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  17. mmm... I hope that I will be able to explain myself, but I do believe that in analizing the "resist/don't resist" duality there is a misconception.

    H-Games are not a "genre". H-games are a "flavour". "First-person-shooter" is a "genre", and then we have the "badass flavoured", like Duke Nuk'em and Serious Sam, that you play for the ludicrous amount of damage you can deal (and sustain) with ridiculous weapons, and "Ghost Recon", in wich even a six-rounds "Saturday Night Special" can off you.

    So, when you play a H-Game, you play it for "that" flavour. You want a good, consistent, gameplay and you want "H". If it's a "sex as a reward" game, you play to win flawlessy. If it is a "sex as punishment", you carefully try to "lose" everytime you can afford it.

    The important thing is to keep the gameplay consistent.
    So the meaning of "resist/don't resist" must change according to the gameplay.
    In a RPG/Adventure setting, the choice has to be "relevant" for the story development. In a "metroidvania" or "action" game, the choice has to impact on the probability of "completing/not completing" the stage. That's why a "damage on rape" or "healing reverse rape" should be part of a good action H-game. The player has to know that submitting to rape may lead to starting again the same stage.
    That's why a "harmless rape" in a action H-game is nice but somewhat a letdown. There must alway be a reason to struggle with the protagonist or to "let go in despair", because all is lost anyway.

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  18. Omg no daily animation for the 28th!

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  19. Please DEFINITELY work on the Rogue-lite concept and turn it into a full game. I love Roguelikes, and I've only seen one H-related Roguelike (which, of course, doesn't have an English translation).

    And commenting on something OverlordZero said above, a Rogue Legacy (at least in terms of concept) H knockoff is a great idea. You've already got the procreation... why not let it lead to children who inherit your abilities between play_throughs?

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    1. I might do something involving generations, however the gameplay and overall progression system wouldn't be like Rogue Legacy.

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  20. Check out Towerclimb. That's a Rogue-lite platformer with pretty fun gameplay, & every different thing that kills you has it's own death card / still screen that makes even death rewarding, considering the design is unique. After I beat the first half of the game I'd work on getting back to later areas just to get all the death cards. I think it could definitely work with an H-themed game.

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