Tuesday, May 12, 2015
H-scenarios, feedback / impact.
Kinda figured I should just make this a post.
This is in response to a question about giving H-scenes impact, and how I'm going to deal with H-scenes in Noaika.
In a broad sense, giving H-content impact is similar to giving other gameplay elements impact. That is, everything you do or see should have a tangible effect. It should give you “feedback”. Something that creates the illusion or feeling that what you did not only happened, but mattered.
For example, if the player throws a punch, and the enemy flinches, then that’s short-term feedback. It gives your action impact. Now, if you punch an NPC, and then later that same NPC and a couple friends ambush you for revenge, that’s long-term feedback. It makes the world feel more alive because individual actions were a part of something bigger.
To me, it’s having both short-term and long-term feedback that separates great H-content from okay H-content.
As an example (seems like I use this example a lot), in Hounds of the Blade there’s a fight with some mobsters. If you lose, there’s a series of H-animations.
By itself, it’s pretty decent. However, what makes it better is that if you go to the bar after being defeated by them, there’s a scene where the two of them are acting pretty cocky. You can either beat the crap out of them, or you can act a little submissive. If you choose the latter, another H-scene begins. What makes it good is the fact that it’s a result of your previous actions. It’s long-term feedback. What’s more, at the end of the scene the mobster tells you to come back and have sex again sometime, and if you return, the dialogue is slightly different to reflect the fact that you came back after being submissive the last time. Even though the scene is the pretty much the same, that extra bit of dialogue creates more long-term feedback, and sparks the player’s imagination a little. It gives the whole scenario more impact.
Long-term feedback is more or less what I’m personally trying to accomplish more with Noaika. The idea that many H-animations are a part of a larger scenario, and that very few enemies are limited to a single animation.
As for how I’m dealing with H-content/scenarios, I’m doing it in a couple ways. You can skip this if you want to keep it a surprise for when you play Noaika. (Though I won’t describe specific scenarios anyway)
-The first kind is enemies in-game. Some enemies have more than one animation depending on your state (normal/lewd), as well as what are basically less animated foreplay animations as attacks for when you aren't knocked down.
Some enemies can cause status effects in the player that will affect other enemy’s animations or actions. For example, one type of enemy will…”infect” the player when they H them, which will cause certain other enemies to H them differently. Other enemies will be passive to the player if you have a certain status effect, or take them somewhere if you are captured. “Completing” some of these “arcs” of events have different effects.
-There is a sort of lab/testing chamber where you can interact with enemies you've unlocked (which must be captured). With certain enemies, there are “research” animations specific to the lab that have a mini game aspect, which rewards you with items and skills.
- In the case of enemies with status effects, the research mini-game it will either result in a cure for the effect, or something that makes it beneficial with drawbacks, depending on how you complete the mini-game.
- You can also do another form of research with any enemy, wherein you fight waves of the enemy until you lose (ending in rape), and the longer you survive, the better the reward is.
- Other than enemies, there are some rooms throughout the world that have H-scenes with NPCs. Some of these scenes are prerequisites for certain occurrences, like opening doors, making bosses appear, or causing other events. Chances are they will have dialogue, even in the protagonist doesn't. Some of these scenes are monster-related.
-The robot girls have a couple limited animations related to a status effect.
That’s about it, regarding H animations. Aka, “sounds great! Once it’s actually freaking done, that is.”
Posted by Kyrieru at 5:26 PM
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Now this is very interesting. It sounds like it will be a lot of work to do, but I think it will be fantastic if you finish it. Transformations are (mostly) pretty damn awesome. Did you have this in mind when you first designed the breast expansion effect from the floating eye?ReplyDelete
Will there be non-sexual transformations?
And finally, the most important one: will there be a futa transformation and will you be able to play through most of the game with it active?
I am suddenly reminded of Onimusha 3...it's a good thing, I loved that game, but it's a pretty random pairing.ReplyDelete
I can’t see any pictures in this blog. Is it normal?ReplyDelete
There are no pictures in this post.Delete
I am talking about the entire blog! No pictures at all!!!Delete
Then no, not normal lol.Delete
It is possible that you blocked images for his site by accident!Delete
you may try to right click on his site and find an option to unblock images
or you go to the browser options and click yourself trough until you find blocked images and co
its also possible that you have your security standard of your browser too high! (then it my even block images)
Sounds like a shit-ton of work, but if you manage to pull that off, man that would be pretty sweet~ReplyDelete
"For example, one type of enemy will…”infect” the player when they H them, which will cause certain other enemies to H them differently."ReplyDelete
For example, one enemy infects the player and turns them into a futa, and then other enemies are now using H anims on a futa rather than a female?
Sounds about right.Delete
I'd agree that it sounds like it would be futa, but he didn't mention it by name. It could be the breast enlargement, maybe some kind of butt enlargement or parasite effect. Pregnancy? Pheromones? Some kind of zombification or other type of transformation (Animal/Robot?) Maybe even some type of chastity belt device or tentacle clothes or something.Delete
"Infect" could mean a lot of things.
I wouldn't bet on anything....
...Unless he specifically responds to this post verifying a certain type of content.
There are a few status effects, not just one. Most of them aren't represented visually, but will be represented visually when doing certain things. If I end up doing one where you actually transform, you wouldn't be able to use normal abilities because doing that much editing isn't something I want to do -__-Delete
Mmm, have you already started with the status and mini game stuff? I need this to come out before Paradox's translation or I'll die.ReplyDelete
Sounds like fun, long term effects are definitely a great way of improving upon the H-scenes.ReplyDelete
This is what separates the boys from the men. Rockstar did something similar like this in GTA V where if you steal a persons car the not only attack you(Short term) but also sometimes they put a bounty on your head(long term). Programming something like that took a large team of devs a few weeks. This could take you months to years to implement and finish. But if you can pull off the game will be worth so much... Well at least until it gets pirated... But let's hope that doesn't happen...ReplyDelete
I wouldn't really say that it's comparable. GTA is a AAA 3d game, with very complex systems. Noaika is relativity simple, all things considered.Delete
Plus, in the context of my games, it's as simple as,
*guy gets punched*
global.variable = 1
*walk past same place again later*
if global.variable = 1
*start ambush event*
Making it happen where I want it to happen isn't difficult. Doing the content for it just naturally takes time.
I want to have your babies Kyrieru!ReplyDelete
They would procrastinate a lot.Delete
I'm so glad i preordered this a while ago. I'm going to have a nice surprise one day when i get home from work :)ReplyDelete
I really like the idea of long term effects that aren't game ending but open up new stuff. I especially like the idea of being infected and specific animations for "research." I just kind of hope that eventually, there's a way to unlock all interactions at some point in the game.
As it stands, you would be able to unlock all interactions on a single save.Delete
Is there stuff we can miss or are there teleportation plattforms that allow us to visit an old area in order to get some scenes we may have missed. Backtracking is only so much fun.Delete
There will be ways of fast traveling.Delete
Good to know, thanks!Delete
Are any H-scenes in the game forced? Like is it possible to do a "Virgin Run" kinda thing without turning H-animations off?ReplyDelete
I mean, you could, but you wouldn't be able to get certain abilities.Delete
I'm not really a fan of futa, but sweet jesus are you putting an impressive amount of content into this gameReplyDelete
Question: once you've entered the "lewd" state, how do you return back to "normal"? Since that functionality doesn't seem to be in the early demo. Is that another enemy interaction, or an item, or what?Delete
I was also wondering if there will be a way to go from lewd back to normal.Delete
can't get your v-card back, sorry if you guys didn't knowDelete
There will be a way in the final game.Delete
I'd love to see some short term/reversible consequences in the realm of gender swapping. Guy turned into a girl for a time. This would definitely effect H animations (but might take alot of work)ReplyDelete
Eroico has a gender bending scene that ended in a game over, I liked this but wish it wasn't just game over.
If Kyrieru needs cash again, he should release a girl Eroico (Eroiko?) patch for $1 or $2. Same levels and mechanics, just new main character sprites, H-animations, and game overs screens. Better than most DLC.Delete
Nah, it would be called "Eroika"Delete
To be honest it's not bad idea for past, or future games. Having an ALT version that Replaces the player and the maybe the enemies/ layout (Kind of like a strange red/blue approach).
However, there are some people who would want one version and not the other, so it couldn't really be a patch, and it would be kind of awkward to come up with an acceptable price given that some people would want both, or prefer that it's just one game with an option/mode select.
Ehhhh I don't like thinking about DLC. It always feels like I'd be ripping people off, even if I was trying not to -__-
Again a female mc? Already 90% of these games only have those. It's so repetitveDelete
Saying that having a lot of female protagonists is repetitive is like saying that you're heterosexual, but having sex with women is getting old. If you're into something, it's about variety within that category. For some people, they just don't find the idea of a male character appealing, so of course they're going to make what they like.Delete
In my case, I'm probably going to end up alternating between male and female characters, since I like both.
Sounds great ! A lot of work ahead, but if you manage to do everything you said ... Whoa ! This game is really going to be great.ReplyDelete
Estimated release date ? Hmm ... When it's done I suppose ... But I can't wait =D
Good luck with the rest of the development.
>or take them somewhere if you are capturedReplyDelete
Damn that's a lot of content, not to mention the amount of work it involves. I can't fathom the complexities of the unlocks, NPC scene/event handlers, especially having to organize and keep track of all scenes that had happened. I get lost even in my own unkempt coding.ReplyDelete
I imagine it would be difficult to explain the story or a scene purely through visual cues so having dialogues definitely open things up. Will there be scenes that would result in immediate game over/bad end? Branching paths in Noaika?
Thanks for the detailed write up. Just the post I was looking for.
No scenes will result in a bad end. Or at least, I haven't planned any.Delete
There are branching paths in the sense that there are multiple routes you can take to beat the game, but there won't be branching paths in the story. There are multiple endings, but it's more like you have to fulfill conditions for an ending to be an option, as opposed to you being stuck with one or the other.
If I end up having some choices in event lines, I'll probably include something that let's you reset the the event line so you don't have to have a bunch of saves.
Keeping track of events isn't too difficult. It's more or less just a matter of writing it all out before you do it, and writing out all the global variables in a way that's easy to reference.
Maybe you should/could just consider various endings as obtainable/viewable? Or is that what you meant?
As in, rather than have to replay the entire game under X conditions to see Y ending, you could at least have some system or list of endings available to players and/or inform the player as to what ending/s exist/you 'got this time'/etc, and make it fairly straightforward how to achieve all the possible content/endings/etc.
I'm a big fan of multiple endings, paths, etc... but i'm a really big non-fan of obscure content or being unaware of just how much there is to be found (e.g. poring through content and repeating game sequences/games in entirety to 'maybe see a secret ending/bad ending/good ending/true ending') ... it's a lot better when there's a fairly clear explanation or quantification of the 'rewards/possibilities' and at least a direct-enough understanding of how to get em'.
Just two cents.
Well, here's how it works,Delete
As an example, imagine a story where you're trapped in a building with zombies. Along the way, you come across a door that leads outside, but it's locked. You also come across a bomb, and an escape pod, but access to them requires a password.
By doing an event line, you get the key to escape.
By defeating a huge boss, you get a password to the bomb and escape pod.
In other words, by getting each item you fulfill the requirements to "begin" a certain ending sequence, but that doesn't mean that you have to follow through. So basically, you could have a save where every ending is available to you, and when the game ends, the game clear save would be the point before you began an ending. (But with anything you got during the sequence)
That's how it's going to work in Noaika, for now, anyway. I'm still considering if I should just make it so there are certain event lines that can go one way or the other, but give the player the ability to reset it at any time (Or maybe once the game is cleared, kind of like Thief and sword's flag system).
God damn, I didn't think Noaika would be that involved.ReplyDelete
aka, sounds great! Once it's done.
I was excited for Noaika for the gameplay. I've played though the demo several times and I love how it looks and controls. Now i'm excited for the H elements too. Wow, this is gonna be awesome, I love what you're planning for this!ReplyDelete
I love the ideas you have, Kyrieru, but remember: Dooooon't push yourself too hard, and don't put too much on your plate all at once!ReplyDelete
I dislike Futanari so I am quite sad to see that it is seemingly getting a lot of content in it, and had such popular votes on the first boss poll. Oh well, I'm sure I will still enjoy the game. I think a cool long-term mechanic in the game would be impregnation sort of like Parasite in City, it would also give many monsters a realistic reason to ignore you and can have realistic downsides and upsides. Like having monsters in certain areas ignore you, but having reduced speed.ReplyDelete
It would also bring risk with other status effects/lewd, like getting a massive attack-boost and speed-boost but increasing odds of pregnancy, that'd be pretty awesome.
Well, I like futa, so you're generally going to see instances of it in my games. It's not as though it's a major focus, though.Delete
There us impregnation in the game.
''There us impregnation in the game.''Delete
Take all of my fucking money.
Curse Blogger's inability to edit comments! D:Delete
There us pregnancy.
There us combat.
There us many things....
Yeah I figured it was a typo, I'm just flipping my shit at impregnation. Literally one of my favorite things and sad at little support for it in the H-game community except for largely untranslated games. I view you as one of the best H-game creators around so to actually see you implementing that makes me all the more excited.Delete
Take all my fucking money man.
After reading all of this and previous posts, one thing comes to my mind:ReplyDelete
I'll just wait still for Kurovadis 2.
Goddamn, why are you trying to make the Citizen Kane of H? We would have been happy with a Kurovadis clone, but instead this guy is recreating the fucking Sistine Chapel ceiling with dicks.ReplyDelete
Not that I'm mad, it's just that my dick is starting to make noises that sound a lot like Noaika and I'm a little concerned.
I have not laughed so hard at a post in a long time.Delete
Hats off to you, thanks.
Really hyped for this game. :3cReplyDelete
please don't let this turn into the dwarf fortress of h-gamesReplyDelete
Really sounds like you're gonna pull out all the stops on this project. Really lookin forward to seeing how these plans play out. It's always nice to see a game dev keep the fans updated on various matters.
How many sexual favors does it take to peel a watermelon?ReplyDelete
Is there going to be text related H in Noaika, what I mean is (lol going there as well but) like in 'Hounds of the blade' if you've noticed but depending on the heroines lust lvl the text beside her head in the top left of the screen changes slightly, most of the time its simply ahhh's or nnn's but there's about 4 lvls of corruption based on her lust 0-500 stable 500-1000 horny all the way to 5000 which is mind broken this was just an awesome addition to the game and the text reflects her state of mind, have you though bout this at all?ReplyDelete
I'm fuckin' with it and I support this. Take longer if you need to, it feels like it's been over a year. Make it work! Good luck.ReplyDelete
Hey Ky, I gotta ask... how do you pronounce Kyrieru?ReplyDelete
Well, "kyrie" is a latin word. When you pronounce it, roll the R'sDelete
And then add the "ru", and roll the R the same way. Another way to think of it, just think of how Japanese names like Ryu or Rin are pronounced. Same idea.
right I was saying it like Kai. Still horrible to pronounce but at least it's accurate now.ReplyDelete
I can't ask when it's going to be done, but I'd like to ask how much of this is finished, if you don't mind :')ReplyDelete
I have a question though: since I dislike pregnancy, futa, breast enlargement... will I be able to still have a fulfilling H-experience if I avoid those in the game?
I'm sure I'll still love it 'cause the gameplay is fun... but I'm curious ^_^;
Personally, I'm hoping for some more distension from large insertions, and though it's not up your alley, oviposition. Preferably with large ones. If I had to guess though, he's going for variety rather than focusing on any particular groups of 'activities'. Hopefully, it'll have something for everyone while having some great gameplay.Delete
Yeah, I'm pretty vanilla compared to most H-game lovers, it seems. It's honestly difficult to find something that's not too "out-there" for me.Delete
Man, I really relate.Delete
I guess I just don't get what makes large insertions and Stretch Armstrong vaginas so erotic for people. Just looks painful and gross to me. Can anyone psychoanalyze their own fetish and explain it?Delete
Fetishes are fetishes. The reasons for each person's own tastes are wildly different. But, since you asked, I'll shoot, even though it's something different.Delete
Incest. To be clear, I don't condone it in the real world, but I like it in fictional settings because it shares some of the same aspects with the childhood friend trope (which is another of my favorites.) This is just speculation, but I think the reason I like those two is because as a child growing up, I didn't have that many close friends, and so I've always had this sort of longing for someone who you grew up with and are intimate with. So it's wish fulfillment of a sort.
Can't speak for large insertions. If the girl ain't enjoying it, neither am I.
To put it simply, the rules of fantasy worlds are usually different so that something can more be fun or more enjoyable than it would be in real life. In the case of large insertions, as soon as enjoying it is rationalized by the female character, or her reactions, then the media has established that "In this world, it can be enjoyable", much in the same way a game can establish "you can get hit by a boulder, and it just knocks you back".Delete
If a form of media doesn't clearly establish whether something is painful or not, then the player can project their own rules onto the world. For example, a character just got whipped, did they enjoy it? Did it hurt? Both? The player will probably think whatever makes the content more enjoyable for them.
So to answer your question, of course you're not going to enjoy it if you always imagine that it's painful. For those that enjoy it, they probably enjoy it because they project the idea that it "feels good", even if the content doesn't explicitly say so itself.
Maybe answer my questions too? :DDelete
To answer the first question: A lot.Delete
To answer the second question: Yes. The breast enlargement scene in the demo was the only one in the game, and while there's a boss and a couple of other futa themed elements, it's not the focus by any means.
As for pregnancy, even without those elements there's vastly more H-content than either of my previous games.
One of the best ways that adult games can cater to a wide audience is to have a lot of vanilla content that the vast majority would enjoy. This isn't because any given person's tastes are more vanilla then another's, it's more because everyone has such a radically different set of tastes that it's just more practical if you want broad appeal. Doubly so since different people have different tolerances of fetishes, some don't mind giant insertions even if they don't necessarily appeal to them, for example. The more individual fetishes you focus on, the less likely any given person is to like them. Different people also like fetishes for different reasons. That's why it's always best to either go general appeal, or to focus on one single fetish expressed in a wide verity of different ways.Delete
Just taking me as an example, I like transformations in general, especially truly voluntary ones, but I hate forced male to female TG with a passion. I generally don't mind a girl gaining a dick for a couple reasons, first off the character is still fundamentally who they were before, just with a bit extra, and second because it lets me empathize with the character in question better in sexual situations.
I don't like mind break or identity wiping/rewriting, on the other hand, hypnosis or conscious control can be really interesting. I'm much more tolerant of underage stuff then most people are, so long as I think that the people involved are at least through puberty and aren't being hurt by the experience, though I don't have a fetish for it. Monster girls are among my absolute favorite stuff, but I only tolerate furries.
I like power, and powerful women along with it. I can't stand demeaning or dis-empowerment, which often ruins a lot of femdom stuff for me. I want to focus on how powerful the women is, not how pathetic the guy is for submitting to her. It also gives me one of my most unusual fetishes, which wanting to empower women. I can actually get aroused by given all my stat boosting items in an RPG to a female party member that I like, or by grinding out powerful bonuses or other enhancements on them.
So there's a set of fairly common fetishes, but a few of them are often ruined because they're almost always paired with major turn offs. I'd love to find games that focus on those, but just having a nice set of fairly vanilla content is still enjoyable to go through in the mean time.
Thanks Ky! Good luck with the rest!Delete
Honestly, 60% of the H-content I do is just stuff I like, 30% of it is stuff I do because I think it would be interesting or fun to make, and then the rest is there because even though I'm not a fan it would almost seem odd not to have it. (anal, for example.)Delete
Other than that, I don't really think too much about what people are going to find appealing. I'm of the opinion that devs should simply makes games that they themselves would want to play. Even when it's porn.
The thing is, nearly all of the fetishes within my games are technically "alternative", in the grand scheme of things. It's just that there's a lot of overlap between fetishes, and tolerance within the H-community, and so generally there's at least some element you can find appealing in most anything. You would have to start focusing on some very specific, commonly avoided fetishes to lose the majority of the mainstream H-audience.
Focusing on things is perfectly fine if you're going for general appeal, just so long as you don't spend too much time on any one thing or make too much niche content. I have no idea what the best ratio is, but you can't go wrong with having at least half of your game as fairly vanilla stuff that the majority of players are going to like.Delete
That said, your games can probably hold their own with the gameplay alone. You don't need to worry as much about keeping the sexual side of things interesting for your players since you have a solid game that they can play to keep them interested between sex scenes that they want to see. The key reason why vanilla content is necessary is so that players can actually enjoy most of the sexual side of the game and it isn't a chore to play through to get to what they're actually into.
The new LoZ got pushed back because new ideas emerged to make the game even better, and they're taking a "to hell with deadlines, it'll be done when it's amazing" approach.ReplyDelete
It's official, Ky is Nintendo's inspiration.
Look on the bright side; there's incentive to not get raped.ReplyDelete
Sounds great! Once it's actually freaking done, that is.ReplyDelete
Actually I'm just waiting for the next game. The chick is really unappealing which makes the h-content irrelevant. Atleast for me(!!). So... in 2 years i guess.ReplyDelete
Whaat? I thought Noiaka's protag was the -cutest- thing.ReplyDelete