Friday, May 24, 2019

In the loop

Been working on main games for the most part. Not moved in completely but enough to work all the time.

Starting tomorrow I'm going to start working on the ongoing game consistently. (The plan in the beginning is around 2 days per week, main game for the rest.) Then a new version will be uploaded every 1-2 weeks.

Tomorrow I'll animate the first enemy and an H animation so that the first real update has some content, and H content can be added as game mechanics are worked on. In the beginning it will be little more than enemies spawning that you can fight.

I'm still not entirely sure what I want to do for combat. I keep flip flopping between feeling like single/double attacks with blocking and parrying are enough, and feeling like it would be dull pretty quick. With boring attacks, the game would have to be driven by the desire for loot, but the question is if that's worth sacrificing fun combat for.

I've considered a few options;

1. Say fuck it and just have more moves and animations. Just have clothing and weapons added less often but make them all high fps.

2. Switch to something like martial arts, and have faster, more creative combat and moves. Have the attack swooshes change based on "style", which would take the place of weapons.

3. Have classes of outfits with entirely different move-sets. Each class can only use it's own moves. Changing your outfit would essentially be like changing the game you're playing, and prevent committing to one, however this would make the looter style more difficult unless outfits break, or some other design cheat is used (If one class has the double swing, and another class has a shit ton of martial arts moves, people probably wouldnt ever want to use the more boring one).

4. Stick to the double hit attack, and just focus on adding simple weapons and clothing that dont add much, but have a lot of them, driving the looter/rogue-lite nature of the game.

5. Abandon the notion of looter outfits almost entirely, and have a shit ton of moves. Outfits could be limited to non-combat actions (For example if you equip a bathing suit, you only have a kick, etc)
Trouble here is choosing a main outfit. (Or 1-3, if there are at least a couple.)

Regardless, I'll go forward with the basic attack as it is, since the main goal right now is to get the H train rolling.

28 comments:

  1. Maybe something like this could be implemented ?

    As for combat style, different weapon offer different combat style, EX :
    Hammer : High damage 2 hit animation
    Sword : medium damage 3 hit Animation
    Gauntlet/Fist : low damage 5-6 Hit combo with Noakia Like fighting style.
    The weapon also comes with different rarities, such as Common,Rare,Epic,And legends.
    Different rarities offer different stats and abilities such as fire damage, ETC
    Weapons dropped from enemies can be sold at merchant on city for Golds.

    As for armors, comes with 3 types
    Light armors : Allow players to move faster and double jumps but offer low protection
    Medium armor : armor that offer balance speed and protection without any special abilities
    Heavy armor : Provide high protection and projectile resistance but greatly reduced movement and jump heights.
    Same as weapon, armors also comes with different rarities.

    And for game system, can it changed to RPG style with EXP system, and stat building stuff, So the looting system could fit more in the game ?

    But that just my (stupid) thoughts.
    That will cost a lot of time codings 0.0

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  2. Option 2 seems the most interesting.
    would you be gaining styles the same way as weapons (loot) or would they be granted as part of larger milestones/challenges?

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    1. Or would you loot items (talismans/charms) that boost your stats and have styles associated with them (power style, speed style, aerial style, etc) and which style you use is dependent on the equipped charm? or maybe all styles are unlocked from the beginning and you can switch between them at will?

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    2. Probably loot, but as with weapons they could be gained in other ways. Equipped items could change any aspect of moves or stats since it's fairly easy to program.

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  3. You mentioned you were looking into 3D, so I thought this article might interest you in case you haven't already seen it.
    https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/313026/Art_Design_Deep_Dive_Using_a_3D_pipeline_for_2D_animation_in_Dead_Cells.php

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  4. Roguelite weapons could be really nice, especially if you end up choosing to use a durability system for weapons. I think early game breath of the wild is the best example of that, not everyone likes the durability system in it but I think it kept things very tense and spiced up an otherwise very simple combat system

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    1. I liked it , however I do understand that not everyone can open up their tendencies to a metagame. When I play Sekiro or Dark Souls I hate using consumable items, for example.

      That said I think breaking weapons does make more sense in a roguelite. Even though I think it worked fine in Zelda.

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  5. It would be nice to see some referrences to your other games pop up from time to time in the ongoing one

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  6. Mamono Assault ForceMay 25, 2019 at 4:05 AM

    I like some of the ideas here, in comments and otherwise.

    Since pixel art with animation is a pain in the ass, I'd try to cut my losses and feature character animations with 1 to 3 attacks.

    1st Attack: Downwards Swing
    2nd Attack: Angled Upwards Swing
    3rd Attack: Thrusting Swing

    This way, different weapons can use different attacks while still making sense. A hammer can just use the 1st attack, hitting slow and powerful. A rapier can use the 3rd attack alone. And a classic sword can do the full combo with a series of low damage strikes. This way, you would have three animation sets that make sense for Heavy, Medium, and Light weaponry, and the ability to combine them into Heavy, Medium, and Light attacks. Then you could just tack on the weapons as extras while using the 3 attacks as a base, slowing down or speeding up those animations at will without impacting the visual experience too much.

    Just my two cents.

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    Replies
    1. Mamono Assault ForceMay 25, 2019 at 4:10 AM

      Just realized you can play those three animation concepts backwards to get unarmed combat. Jab(3rd), Hook(2nd), and then Overhead(1st).

      I know and remember you didn't like Violated Heroine for a lot of its reused assets, but I feel you can save yourself a lot of headache. Even going with just the two-step attack, I think is a good idea. I just like the number 3.

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    2. The problem is that 3 swings are essentially the same as the two swings, gameplay wise. The main question is if simplicity is enough (or the best option).

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  7. Simplicity in combat is fine, it all depends on what the combat is focused on. Dark Souls had literally two normal attacks for each hand and it has one of the most praised combat systems ever.

    Also, rather than loot farming, I think lewd farming might be a better incentive given your audience.

    Anyways, some ideas for combat systems:
    1. Reactive moveset - example is parrying. A small window of active frames (~4?) where if hit by an enemy you get a stronger counter-attack/stun/movement
    2. Movement/displacement focused combat - for example, having a move that will launch an enemy backward into a platforming gap, and then using said enemy as a sacrificial yoshi to jump that gap
    3. Grappling enemies to use as shields/projectiles
    4. An accelerated downward kick to goomba stomp and bounce off of enemies

    In general, I think a combat system that forces player engagement would be pretty entertaining. For that it should be fast-paced and have a lot of situations that reward quick reflexes, spatial awareness, and quick planning.

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    1. Dark Souls also has different moves for different weapons, great level design, and 3d space to work with. Classic Castlevania also survives with simple combat because of level design, where the metroidvanias use exploration and progression.

      Where this game would not have levels, simplicity will be boring unless it's driven by progression, so it's a question of what little bump I can give it to make it not boring, or if I go more for fun and options, rather than items.

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  8. Also, on the idea of martial arts moves and different movesets, you could (relatively) easily do that by having a single power-up state. State activity would be limited in some way, typically it would be through a gauge that fills up as you take/deal damage, and once activated, player character discards whatever outfit they're wearing and would all change into the same outfit (something shiny, maybe even with afterimages), and gain multiple martial arts based combos.

    This solves your problem of players not wanting to use boring styles as this form is not always available, and with a unifying outfit, you don't need to worry about making new sprites for each outfit allowing you to instead create more movements.

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    Replies
    1. I'm not big on meter transformations in games. It's not the wrong way of doing things, but personally I prefer having movesets that are more of a constant factor (Think of something like Smash bros, where every normal move leads to more combo possibilities, but balanced rather than limited in use). If I did transformations I'd probably make it so there are no weapons, and the transformations would be the main thing.

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    2. Just to add to the conversation, what are your thoughts on a smash bros joker style transformation system, where the transformation is more just a slight enhancement rather than something that changes your whole moveset

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    3. Well, the benefit of an alt appearance is that you can have a new moveset without making frames for all clothing. So I probably wouldn't make it just enhance if I did transformations.

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  9. If you're ever unsure about what to add:
    Maximum animation.
    Add to the movelist.
    Add to the shag.

    People will think they want more cosmetic niche stuff - sex always wins.
    KOs'; defeat states; beatdowns after KO.
    Cannot go wrong.
    Looking forward to whatever you put out, regardless.

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    1. Well, more shag will exist either way, since the bulk of the animations will be when the player is nude, where I won't have to worry about frame count at all.

      The only difference if there's no clothing customization would be that there would be more clothing with H, since otherwise it would just be the 1-3 generic poses + any clothing events.

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  10. If you're worried that something in a given area might not be entertaining enough, you could re-use certain areas pretty easily if you add an optional challenge mechanic.

    Say, grade people at the end of an area, or boss, or whatever. Grade based on time, or percentage of items collected, or damage taken, bonus objectives met, anything really, and even an overall grade.

    Bitches love getting graded.

    Nothing says you have to use letters either, expressions/animals/fruits/buildings. Silly grade types are good too.

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    1. The impression I got is that it isn't supposed to be a typical linear game, though. Giving grades for areas might not be feasible, with that in mind.

      I personally like the idea of different fighting styles. Perhaps each would have drawbacks. For instance, a martial arts style might get fast attacks but have short range and poor priority, requiring an emphasis on sneak attacks and parrying. There could be a balanced weapon style like a sword or something that offers average overall abilities, and a big weapon like a greataxe or something that gives high damage but attacks slowly.

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  11. Reading comments, I had an idea that could be neat. Give the player 2-3 quick equipment slots, that would change your equipment to whatever is set by player (E.G. one slot would be onehand-type weapon/armor, second would be twohand-type) and give each slot a quick-change button, that would instantly change your equipment, *and open up more combo possibilities*. Like, a one handed sword has the ability to do 3 hits in a series, while a twohand can only make 2, but if you can do a quick-change from onehand-to-twohand(or whatever is set by player) it opens up a 6-hit series ?
    EX-
    one hand 3-hit series --
    quickchange to twohand --
    window (land a hit within x time to start extra combo, fail to hit in window results in one hit before resetting to standard attacks--
    --succesful quickchange combo does one more hit, that neither one- or two-hand can do alone.

    I think that could be a cool mechanic, depending on your arsenal. Or doing that could allow the quick-change combo attack animations/effects that aren't available using just one weapon.

    I've gotten a couple of your previous games, and I look forward to your next!

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  12. As much as I like the costume idea, I think it'd be cool to have a Smash bros/Kirby moveset where each direction is a new move and this applies to weapons as well...
    Beautiful animations would be enough to encourage me to try each weapon but I cant speak for everyone else.

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  13. I've been playing a lot of octopath traveller recently, and it made me wonder how hard it would be to make an h-rpg with a similar graphical style. I'm not sure where else to take this question so I decided to shoot it your way. So what are your thoughts?

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    1. To be honest there isn't really anything significant to it's graphics. It's more or less just pixel art with a lot of effects on top so it comes down to whether you can execute pixel art and effects individually.

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